{White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

[Theyaden]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Like I said before everyone wants to be the one to kill the mob. So why not give whm the ability to attack while healing if they want to. Something along the lines of they don't give the mob tp for the damage they inflict as long as it is done by a staff or club.

I don't know what to do to make it more appealing for everyone else. I personally like playing as whm, but I had to take a break so I could go and kill the mobs as my bst. I'm thinking about taking a break from bst to lvl pld again. Just because I like to tank and I like the job. I would rather a pld for a tank over a nin anyday.

Sorry I went a bit off topic. I just think that if SE would make whm a little more active in the killing of the mobs more people would play as whm. Just my .02 though.

Personally as a whm I'm perfectly happy keeping the party hasted, regened, erased, poisonaed, paralynaed, barelementraed, exc without tempting me into AOE knockout range, but I enjoy the role of keeping everyone else functional. Personally I wish whm's got a mp refresh instead of regen or better yet a conserve mp trait (like the blm's) that procs for healing magic to make the mana stretch longer. Also I shudder to think of the additional whm's that won't /heal because they want to wack the mob even with multiple pt members asking them to stop meleing. (whm knows being the only healer around they won't get kicked so ignores the others.)
Fighting melee can be fun, but it's a role best left to melee character. (I work on thief when I wish to inflict damage and whm when I wish to repair it).

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

In XP parties 55+, RDM's vastly superior MP recovery trumps WHM's more efficient spellcasting. Without some additional help with cures and one solid source of MP recovery (Balladx2, Refresh, or Evoker's Roll), it's pretty hard to stay afloat on WHM.

Err... I haven't seen a single exp party post 45 without a refresher of some sort? My understanding is that even merit parties have refreshers, NA or JP alike.

If the comparison must be made between RDM/WHM with self-refresh and WHM w/out any refresh, sure, RDM wins. Not sure why you want to compare one healer with refresh and one without, though.

[Murphie]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I think his point was that a RDM comes with built-in refresh, whereas a WHM obviously doesn't. So a RDM/WHM can do what a WHM can do but without having to have another person there for refresh-y goodness.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

I understand that, but it's still unsatisfying to take WHM out of its usual environment (i.e. with refresh), then compare its ability to heal with that a RDM.

[Karinya]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

If you're looking at it from the point of view of a party that doesn't have any healer yet, then taking the RDM and not the WHM is better than taking the WHM and not the RDM, and I think that was his point.

However, taking both is almost always even better.

[Darkages]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

im a level 50 whm...even tho ive been playing for about 3 years but the thing is i can be in partys with my whm and i still get party invites its kinda werid tho..and reallly annoying.....
ps.the reason ive been playing for 3 years and dont have it to 75 is bc i have whm blm smn and drg all around 45-50 area its quiet fun in balista with all those jobs too

[Spiritbear]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Personally as a whm I'm perfectly happy keeping the party hasted, regened, erased, poisonaed, paralynaed, barelementraed, exc without tempting me into AOE knockout range, but I enjoy the role of keeping everyone else functional. Personally I wish whm's got a mp refresh instead of regen or better yet a conserve mp trait (like the blm's) that procs for healing magic to make the mana stretch longer. Also I shudder to think of the additional whm's that won't /heal because they want to wack the mob even with multiple pt members asking them to stop meleing. (whm knows being the only healer around they won't get kicked so ignores the others.)
Fighting melee can be fun, but it's a role best left to melee character. (I work on thief when I wish to inflict damage and whm when I wish to repair it).

You are more of a well rounded player when it comes to jobs like alot of the older players are and very few of the newer ones. Most of the new players try FFXI out on their way to play WoW. They are the ones that want the exp to come rolling in easily and to kill everything themselves. That is why I say that everyone wants to be the one to kill the mob. Not because I want to all the time but because that is why most of the newbs on the game end up picking dd jobs over support jobs. I would say 90-95% of the new players would rather play dd jobs over tank and healer.

[Karinya]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

It's not just the new players, it's always been that way. That's why we had a DD excess in the first place. I don't think the number of DD-only players entering the game has changed much - but some of the old DD-only players have left out of frustration with the constant excess of DDs (that they themselves collectively created), so a higher percentage of old players *that are still around* are players willing to play some non-DD roles.

And then a lot of times the players who level one DD job to 75 decide to start their second job and... it's another DD job. BLM + WAR or MNK, RNG + WAR, etc. (Don't get me started on DD-only WARs...) Occasionally someone who started as DD will take NIN for their second job - hardly ever a mage (except DDBLU) or support. So if someone who has already been a healer and a tank decides to try DD, then they just contribute further to the DD excess, because the people who went DD first aren't usually going to reciprocate.

[Akashimo]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Only thing about WHM DDing is that it isn't exactly viable or effect til the mid 60's when they can get Hexa Strike then 70's for Black Halo to open/close a Light SC. Even then, only a few maces/clubs are good for hexa and main healing, such as Reserv Captian's Mace and the Bastok equialant, both offering hMP+7, only 3 less than dark, but able to keep some TP when they need to heal. Aside, Moonlight/Starlight doesn't return enough mp to be a viable option pre Hexa. <_< >_>; And if anyone remembers an old thread I had started *coughwhmscythecough* we could toss that into the possibilities. Or just give whm a new weapon class all their own like Great Hammers, early levels ws provides MP/HP recovery to pty greater than moonlight/starlight, higher lvls, SC able for Distortion and Light to work with the popular DD jobs. But comes the issue with healing/tp maybe provide that class of weapons a greater hMP than Dark Staff, with some Store TP traits on it. Who knows.

[Kholdstare]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

It's not just the new players, it's always been that way. That's why we had a DD excess in the first place. I don't think the number of DD-only players entering the game has changed much - but some of the old DD-only players have left out of frustration with the constant excess of DDs (that they themselves collectively created), so a higher percentage of old players *that are still around* are players willing to play some non-DD roles.

And then a lot of times the players who level one DD job to 75 decide to start their second job and... it's another DD job. BLM + WAR or MNK, RNG + WAR, etc. (Don't get me started on DD-only WARs...) Occasionally someone who started as DD will take NIN for their second job - hardly ever a mage (except DDBLU) or support. So if someone who has already been a healer and a tank decides to try DD, then they just contribute further to the DD excess, because the people who went DD first aren't usually going to reciprocate.

This pretty much sums it up, which is why it made me so glad to see two RL friends start out as an RDM and WHM.

Although, there is the one group of people you forgot to mention: The people who take an in-demand job to 75 as fast as possible to get both financial and merit-based backing for less liked jobs (i.e. someone taking BRD to 75 for merits on DRK) So these people not only take a potential buffer/healer/tank off the market, but do it so they can add another DD.

Personally, I can't see why people blame those wanting to DD. DDing is fun. It's perfectly normal to want to watch yourself kill the mob and bust off visually awesome spells as opposed to watching HP bars, Shadows or "Soandso's Refresh/Haste/Ballad/Etc. wears off" lines. Don't blame WoW for people wanting to kill things in this game, blame Tanking, Healing, and support for being boring as sin. You need to focus on something very uninteresting (I.e. lines of text) for long periods of time. You need the patience of a saint or the self-torturing of a masochist to play some of those jobs.

[Auron517]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Don't blame WoW for people wanting to kill things in this game, blame Tanking, Healing, and support for being boring as sin. You need to focus on something very uninteresting (I.e. lines of text) for long periods of time. You need the patience of a saint or the self-torturing of a masochist to play some of those jobs.

I dunno Khold...I really think the "boredom" of a job is in the eyes of the player. Many people claim to hate White Mage becaue it's dull and monotonous, but I LOVE it. Squinting at HP Bars, keeping up with Haste and Regen cycles, watching those pretty lights go off when I toss out a Cure, then resting while roaming the chat log looking for more reasons to cast additional Cures is just what I enjoy.

On the contrary, I find popular DPS jobs known for their ability to put out numbers (i.e. Black Mage, and Monk) to be extremely boring, but many people would disagree with me, and that's okay...we all have different preferences. That being said, I don't think there's anything SE could do to make back line jobs more interesting for the players that just want to be doing damage in the front...they'll still find reasons to complain about them.

[Akashimo]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

...we all have different preferences. That being said, I don't think there's anything SE could do to make back line jobs more interesting for the players that just want to be doing damage in the front...they'll still find reasons to complain about them.

Which I believe was the case in different views from previous nerfs and "nerfs". People and perception on jobs are very very feckle, so what might attract them with any new changes to make people wanna play whm could not meet expectations and they'll just go back to DDing.

[Karinya]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

If you often find DD jobs boring, I suggest trying DRG/SAM. You have a lot to play with, especially after 60, and oh yeah, you also outparse pretty much everyone without Ridill.

Then again, maybe I shouldn't make that suggestion, because if you take it I'll be contributing even more to the excess of DDs on your server.

But I think it can be fun to be a DD, as long as it isn't one of those "engage, go get a drink, come back when it's time to WS" jobs.

[Akashimo]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

But I think it can be fun to be a DD, as long as it isn't one of those "engage, go get a drink, come back when it's time to WS" jobs.

Which is why I just love jobs that depend on JA Go Go Thief power! Can't be lazy with that job, gotta be active =3

[Vyuru]

Re: {White Mage} {WTF are they}?!

Well you know, as rdm I really loved healing, buffing, nuking, and enfeebling. What just totally burned me out was when people just spammed me nonstop for refresh, despite my impeccable refresh cycle, or spammed me for spells I did not have access to, I played rdm/blm, so no ~na spells, and no, for the thousandth time I do NOT have access to summon buffs, and for the love of god, if you want Erase ask the whm and not the lvl 42 rdm/blm.

I really liked rdm, I casts the spells that make the mobs go D'oh! But my other 5 party members just bugged me too much and sucked the enjoyment out of it for me.

So I guess I'm one of those people who enjoy playing pretty much any job. I like the magic bursting, enfeebling, and all the other stuff mages do, and I like the skillchaining, being a SATA partner, and all the other stuff melee do.

What I don't like are boring jobs with little to do, such as bard in the early levels. I sing two songs for the party, maybe I get to use a threnody or requiem, maybe I get to heal with a paltry mp pool, but not much. Now that I have bard up to 27 I'm enjoying it, +mnd/int songs help rdm, whm, and blm, ballad helps me do more curing, I have the full threnody elemental range now so I can help the mages land spells a little bit better, a whole heckuva lotta fun now.

And for some reason I don't get bugged for songs I don't have or that the party has, it's pretty nice right now at least.